[INUG-Users] ITNM 3.8 - Layer 3 network view.

Mon May 25 05:56:07 EDT 2009

Just to wrap it up, and send my thanks to those who to their time to answer
my questions.

It doesn't really matter how the guys in the security department react, but
merely a question of how ITNM react on the information given. I my case I
have snmp and ssh access to the firewall, as I control the bloody thing
myself. That is why I expected it to show up on the Layer 3 Network view as
a connected node, but it does not. 

Regarding the fault management, then Dan is right. It is much more important
to monitor the L2 side of an interface. 

I think Carsten puts the head on the nail. The L3 view causes a some wtf's
and the users is much more interested in seeing a topology that actually
fit's their view of a cabled Layer 3 network.

Once again. Thank you for taking your time to answer this.

BR
Gregers.

-----Original Message-----
From: users-bounces at netcoolusers.org [mailto:users-bounces at netcoolusers.org]
On Behalf Of Carsten Zimmermann
Sent: 21. maj 2009 11:05
To: users at netcoolusers.org
Subject: Re: [INUG-Users] ITNM 3.8 - Layer 3 network view.

Moin !

In my experience what most people would expect is a layer3/Subnet view
mixture. I the current L3 view you would have alle devices without SNMP
unconnected, which is bad and causes quite some wtf's once people see this.
The Subnet view is better, but it is overly crowded with subnet clouds.
What i would like to see is a view where "stupid" devices are connected to
clouds, but the connections between routers are direct ones, like in the L3
view. Also there should be an option to remove/not display Subnet Clouds
with just one member.

Carsten

-----Original Message-----
From: users-bounces at netcoolusers.org [mailto:users-bounces at netcoolusers.org]
On Behalf Of Daniel Martin
Sent: 20 May 2009 14:10
To: users at netcoolusers.org
Subject: Re: [INUG-Users] ITNM 3.8 - Layer 3 network view.

firewalls are generally pretty close mouthed about what they're connected to
and how.  you may end up putting it in by hand.  if you go to the firewall
guys and say, hey, could you enable snmp on your firewall? or, and they love
this, could you give me the ssh/telnet passwords so i can log in to the box
and run some commands? because the mibs don't tell me everything i need to
know about connectivity.  the firewall guys will probably not be as
cooperative with those requests as they could be.

as far as "true" layer 3 connectivity, layer 3 interfaces don't go down or
have problems, you can lose connectivity on layer 3, but mostly because a
link went down a few layers below.  we wanted to be useful more than we
wanted to be consistent with the OSI model.  If we failed at both,  that
would be bad, and if you think we did, please let me know.

i've seen a number of people try to wrestle with networking before and the
OSI stack is a great way to organize the acronyms into something useful, but
at some point, the OSI stack is not helpful, especially around some of the
newer protocols like ATM and MPOA and MPLS and even carrier ethernet.

does this help?

Dan Martin
Industry Solutions Architect - NextGen Service Assurance Tivoli Industry
Solutions
845 612 0968
http://w3.tap.ibm.com/w3ki07/display/IBMSM/Communication+Service+Providers
+%28Telco%29

  From:       "Gregers Paludan Nakman" <gpnster at gmail.com>

  To:         <users at netcoolusers.org>

  Date:       05/20/2009 06:32 AM

  Subject:    Re: [INUG-Users] ITNM 3.8 - Layer 3 network view.

  Sent by:    users-bounces at netcoolusers.org

Hmm Think I found a reason today. Taken from the "Topology Visualization
Guide"

"Layer 3
Shows routers and the connections between routers. Switches are not normally
displayed.

Note: Switches with routing capabilities are displayed if they have active
connections involving layer 3 interfaces.
The connections between devices are displayed as follows:
- Connections between two layer 3 interfaces are shown as normal.
- Connections between a layer 3 and a layer 2 interface are shown as being
between the layer 3 interface and the subnet to which the layer 2 interface
belongs.
- Connections between two layer 2 interfaces are not shown."

So my basic problem is that I didn't understand the IBM concept of showing a
Layer 3 network.

I'm willing to accept this, but what about firewalls? Firewalls also work on
Layer3 as routers? My Cisco ASA doesn't show as a connected node in a L3
network map.

BR
Gregers.

-----Original Message-----
From: users-bounces at netcoolusers.org [mailto:users-bounces at netcoolusers.org
]
On Behalf Of Carsten Zimmermann
Sent: 19. maj 2009 10:04
To: users at netcoolusers.org
Subject: Re: [INUG-Users] ITNM 3.8 - Layer 3 network view.

Moin !

As far as i know the L2 topology is build mainly upon the field
ExtraInfo->m_RouterLinks in model. You need to verify that this field is
filled.
It is also important to know that only devices with proper snmp access will
be connected, since the L3 connection is build on interface information.

Carsten

-----Original Message-----
From: users-bounces at netcoolusers.org [mailto:users-bounces at netcoolusers.org
]
On Behalf Of Gregers Paludan Nakman
Sent: 19 May 2009 09:34
To: users at netcoolusers.org
Subject: Re: [INUG-Users] ITNM 3.8 - Layer 3 network view.

Sure IP Subnet gives me a view of the Layer 3 Subnets, but I do not want to
see all the configured subnet. I have applied a seed file with the nodes I
want to monitor, and I want to see the Layer 3 connection between these
nodes.

Med venlig hilsen

Gregers Paludan Nakman
System Management Engineer
NetDesign A/S
+45 4435 8357

-----Original Message-----
From: users-bounces at netcoolusers.org [mailto:users-bounces at netcoolusers.org
]
On Behalf Of Leslie Clark
Sent: 18. maj 2009 18:19
To: users at netcoolusers.org
Subject: Re: [INUG-Users] ITNM 3.8 - Layer 3 network view.

Try choosing IP Subnet. It makes clouds for the subnets connecting the
devices, sort of like Netview and HPOV.

Cordially,

Leslie A. Clark
IBM Global Services
Detroit

"Gregers Paludan Nakman" <gpnster at gmail.com> Sent by:
users-bounces at netcoolusers.org
05/18/2009 03:12 AM
Please respond to
users at netcoolusers.org

To
<users at netcoolusers.org>
cc

Subject
[INUG-Users] ITNM 3.8 - Layer 3 network view.

Hi NetCoolers

Can one of you tell me how to make a network view on a layer 3 network?

In my opinion layer 3 refers to the IP layer of the stack - aka IP addresses
and routing. I have tried several different combination of agents in the
discover, and I can make nice network views for layer 2, but I does not
connect anything at layer 3. Not even if I include end nodes. I am sure that
I have snmp read access to the nodes, and I have verified the network
connectivity.

I have tried to enable the feedback, and disable it. It only a question of
how many nodes that will be discovered. I did not have any reflection on the
layer 3 views.

Is there somebody that can tell why the nodes connect on layer 2, but not in
layer 3?

BR

Gregers.

 <
http://www.netdesign.dk/events/konferencer/unified-communications-seminar>
http://www.netdesign.dk/billeder/UC.jpg

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